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	<title>Comments for DanNorth.net</title>
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	<link>http://blog.dannorth.net</link>
	<description>It&#039;s all behaviour</description>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Deliberate Discovery by Rob</title>
		<link>http://blog.dannorth.net/2010/08/30/introducing-deliberate-discovery/#comment-8143</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Sep 2010 03:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dannorth.net/?p=431#comment-8143</guid>
		<description>Dan,

Thanks again for another timely post -- hits in exactly with some stuff we&#039;re working through just now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan,</p>
<p>Thanks again for another timely post &#8212; hits in exactly with some stuff we&#8217;re working through just now.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Deliberate Discovery by Scott Bellware</title>
		<link>http://blog.dannorth.net/2010/08/30/introducing-deliberate-discovery/#comment-8142</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Bellware</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Sep 2010 02:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dannorth.net/?p=431#comment-8142</guid>
		<description>Hi Dan! Great to see you looking into this. I&#039;ve been talking about learning and re-learning for a few years. It&#039;s mostly been an issue in the Lean Development community. Great to see it starting to show up in mainstream spaces as well!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Dan! Great to see you looking into this. I&#8217;ve been talking about learning and re-learning for a few years. It&#8217;s mostly been an issue in the Lean Development community. Great to see it starting to show up in mainstream spaces as well!</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Deliberate Discovery by Christian Blunden</title>
		<link>http://blog.dannorth.net/2010/08/30/introducing-deliberate-discovery/#comment-8140</link>
		<dc:creator>Christian Blunden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 19:42:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dannorth.net/?p=431#comment-8140</guid>
		<description>Great post Dan, can&#039;t wait to see how this reveals itself at QCon.

From the comments, I can see the similarities with exploratory testing although this seems much far reaching.  Exploratory testing is still bounded by some sort of canvas (the application) whilst in inception this is pretty much unbounded.

Somehow, this reminds me of the debono&#039;s thinking hats, a systematic way of revealing information.  I could imagine a similar wardrobe for deliberate discovery, perhaps Deliberate Discovery dungarees?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post Dan, can&#8217;t wait to see how this reveals itself at QCon.</p>
<p>From the comments, I can see the similarities with exploratory testing although this seems much far reaching.  Exploratory testing is still bounded by some sort of canvas (the application) whilst in inception this is pretty much unbounded.</p>
<p>Somehow, this reminds me of the debono&#8217;s thinking hats, a systematic way of revealing information.  I could imagine a similar wardrobe for deliberate discovery, perhaps Deliberate Discovery dungarees?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Deliberate Discovery by Dan North</title>
		<link>http://blog.dannorth.net/2010/08/30/introducing-deliberate-discovery/#comment-8139</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dannorth.net/?p=431#comment-8139</guid>
		<description>Hi David.

I don&#039;t doubt the &quot;learning is a bottleneck&quot; meme has been around for a long time. (I&#039;ve updated the post to add a clarification.) The part I&#039;m interested in is how to consciously impact the shape of the ignorance curve: how to actively engineer episodes that create the right kinds of learning and insight early and continually throughout delivery, such that we are actively aware of and managing the constraint of ignorance. That&#039;s what I&#039;m trying to do with deliberate discovery. I think :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t doubt the &#8220;learning is a bottleneck&#8221; meme has been around for a long time. (I&#8217;ve updated the post to add a clarification.) The part I&#8217;m interested in is how to consciously impact the shape of the ignorance curve: how to actively engineer episodes that create the right kinds of learning and insight early and continually throughout delivery, such that we are actively aware of and managing the constraint of ignorance. That&#8217;s what I&#8217;m trying to do with deliberate discovery. I think :)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Deliberate Discovery by Dan North</title>
		<link>http://blog.dannorth.net/2010/08/30/introducing-deliberate-discovery/#comment-8138</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Sep 2010 17:52:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dannorth.net/?p=431#comment-8138</guid>
		<description>Hi Jon.

Yes, exploratory testing feels very much like deliberate discovery as it applies to defect detection. I certainly find it more a fruitful source of bugs than rerunning the same bunch of automated acceptance tests that didn&#039;t fail for the last 300 times.

You can think of deliberate discovery as that idea extended to the whole software development process, continually &quot;debugging&quot; your process and your knowledge in order to deliver more relevant stuff quicker.

I met James all too briefly at &#216;redev a couple of years ago. You guys have some really inspiring ideas .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Jon.</p>
<p>Yes, exploratory testing feels very much like deliberate discovery as it applies to defect detection. I certainly find it more a fruitful source of bugs than rerunning the same bunch of automated acceptance tests that didn&#8217;t fail for the last 300 times.</p>
<p>You can think of deliberate discovery as that idea extended to the whole software development process, continually &#8220;debugging&#8221; your process and your knowledge in order to deliver more relevant stuff quicker.</p>
<p>I met James all too briefly at &Oslash;redev a couple of years ago. You guys have some really inspiring ideas .</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Deliberate Discovery by David Harvey</title>
		<link>http://blog.dannorth.net/2010/08/30/introducing-deliberate-discovery/#comment-8137</link>
		<dc:creator>David Harvey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 21:43:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dannorth.net/?p=431#comment-8137</guid>
		<description>Nice post. I&#039;ve always tried to teach that the output of planning is not a plan. For the record (&#039;cos these things worry me) the &quot;Learning is a bottleneck&quot; stuff, though talked about for a while, is written up (with thought experiment and all) in Amr Alssamadisy&#039;s book Agile Adoption Patterns (the most interesting thing about the book, I think.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice post. I&#8217;ve always tried to teach that the output of planning is not a plan. For the record (&#8216;cos these things worry me) the &#8220;Learning is a bottleneck&#8221; stuff, though talked about for a while, is written up (with thought experiment and all) in Amr Alssamadisy&#8217;s book Agile Adoption Patterns (the most interesting thing about the book, I think.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Deliberate Discovery by Jon Bach</title>
		<link>http://blog.dannorth.net/2010/08/30/introducing-deliberate-discovery/#comment-8136</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Bach</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 20:59:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dannorth.net/?p=431#comment-8136</guid>
		<description>Hi, Dan,

Thoughtful post.  What you call &quot;Deliberate Discovery&quot; sounds like what I know as chartered exploratory testing -- a way to embrace ignorance by choosing a path into the unknown and following it. Testers have always served to &quot;shine the light into dark spaces&quot;, but exploration is a particularly valuable approach to do that.

&quot;Accidentally On Purpose&quot; is the titled for a talk I once did about skills and tactics of exploratory testing to help testers not feel so helpless or flummoxed when reporting their exploratory work to their managers.

In that talk, I mention finding things deliberately (accidentally is fine, too, but I de-emphasize that) by using Session-Based Test Management to frame and guide exploration.  

Recently, my brother James and I have come up with something for situations in testing where the environment may be especially chaotic.  It&#039;s called Thread-Based Test Management -- a more specific strategy  to organize and report progress toward activity on themes of what you&#039;re pursuing (&quot;threads&quot;).

I have long believed not enough of us are writing about knowledge work despite chaos, improvisational investigation, or deliberate discovery, so I appreciate your post.

Jon Bach</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, Dan,</p>
<p>Thoughtful post.  What you call &#8220;Deliberate Discovery&#8221; sounds like what I know as chartered exploratory testing &#8212; a way to embrace ignorance by choosing a path into the unknown and following it. Testers have always served to &#8220;shine the light into dark spaces&#8221;, but exploration is a particularly valuable approach to do that.</p>
<p>&#8220;Accidentally On Purpose&#8221; is the titled for a talk I once did about skills and tactics of exploratory testing to help testers not feel so helpless or flummoxed when reporting their exploratory work to their managers.</p>
<p>In that talk, I mention finding things deliberately (accidentally is fine, too, but I de-emphasize that) by using Session-Based Test Management to frame and guide exploration.  </p>
<p>Recently, my brother James and I have come up with something for situations in testing where the environment may be especially chaotic.  It&#8217;s called Thread-Based Test Management &#8212; a more specific strategy  to organize and report progress toward activity on themes of what you&#8217;re pursuing (&#8220;threads&#8221;).</p>
<p>I have long believed not enough of us are writing about knowledge work despite chaos, improvisational investigation, or deliberate discovery, so I appreciate your post.</p>
<p>Jon Bach</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Deliberate Discovery by Dan North</title>
		<link>http://blog.dannorth.net/2010/08/30/introducing-deliberate-discovery/#comment-8135</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dannorth.net/?p=431#comment-8135</guid>
		<description>Hi Aslam.

My thesis with deliberate discovery is that &lt;em&gt;some&lt;/em&gt; kind of ignorance is &lt;em&gt;always&lt;/em&gt; one of your primary constraints. I believe that if the team develops an instinct for identifying and addressing any area where learning would help (but learning for the sake of improving throughput, not for its own sake, otherwise you just descend into endless introspection and never get any work done!) then your throughput will improve &lt;em&gt;dramatically&lt;/em&gt;. At least that&#039;s what (I think) I&#039;ve observed among the most high-performing teams and people I know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Aslam.</p>
<p>My thesis with deliberate discovery is that <em>some</em> kind of ignorance is <em>always</em> one of your primary constraints. I believe that if the team develops an instinct for identifying and addressing any area where learning would help (but learning for the sake of improving throughput, not for its own sake, otherwise you just descend into endless introspection and never get any work done!) then your throughput will improve <em>dramatically</em>. At least that&#8217;s what (I think) I&#8217;ve observed among the most high-performing teams and people I know.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Deliberate Discovery by Dan North</title>
		<link>http://blog.dannorth.net/2010/08/30/introducing-deliberate-discovery/#comment-8134</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:31:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dannorth.net/?p=431#comment-8134</guid>
		<description>Hi David.

It certainly sounds like a good start! The challenge is then to keep that attitude and nimbleness throughout development, rather than &quot;doing all the innovating at the start.&quot; I&#039;ll put that book on my Some Day list, but I&#039;ll be honest and say my Some Day list is getting rather long :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi David.</p>
<p>It certainly sounds like a good start! The challenge is then to keep that attitude and nimbleness throughout development, rather than &#8220;doing all the innovating at the start.&#8221; I&#8217;ll put that book on my Some Day list, but I&#8217;ll be honest and say my Some Day list is getting rather long :)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Introducing Deliberate Discovery by Dan North</title>
		<link>http://blog.dannorth.net/2010/08/30/introducing-deliberate-discovery/#comment-8133</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan North</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Aug 2010 08:23:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://blog.dannorth.net/?p=431#comment-8133</guid>
		<description>Hi Aslam.

Spiking in this context is definitely useful. The challenge is in recognising the diminishing return: going far enough with a spike to learn, but resisting the urge to go further than you need. It&#039;s also difficult to throw stuff away you&#039;ve spent time working on: even though I &quot;know&quot; I was only in it for the learning there&#039;s still an emotional attachment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Aslam.</p>
<p>Spiking in this context is definitely useful. The challenge is in recognising the diminishing return: going far enough with a spike to learn, but resisting the urge to go further than you need. It&#8217;s also difficult to throw stuff away you&#8217;ve spent time working on: even though I &#8220;know&#8221; I was only in it for the learning there&#8217;s still an emotional attachment.</p>
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